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Episode 8

The Healing Power of Buildings: Architectural Technology for Health with Ann Vanner FCIAT and Richard Alston MCIAT | 008

Welcome to Where it's AT | the Architectural Technology Podcast

In this episode we explore the relationship between architectural technology and health. With guest speakers Ann Vanner FCIAT from Healing Buildings and Richard Alston MCIAT from Alston and Donnelly Architecture, the discussion covers how design can improve wellbeing, strategies for a healthier built environment, and the importance of education to drive the industry forward. Recorded live at Futurebuild 2025, the conversation also highlights the practical applications of architectural technology, focusing on standards like PassivHaus and various holistic design approaches. Key issues such as sick building syndrome, environmental damage, and social disconnect are explored, alongside actionable solutions for creating healthier spaces.

Guest Speakers

Ann Vanner FCIAT is a distinguished Chartered Architectural Technologist (FCIAT), a registered architect (ARB), and a Living Future Accredited Professional (LFA).  As a founder of Healing Buildings, she is dedicated to pioneering a holistic approach to architecture that integrates restorative design principles. Her firm, Acorn Architects, stands out for its commitment to creating environments that promote healing and well-being. In her professional service to the industry, Ann has made significant contributions, including her roles as Panel Moderator for the MCIAT Professional Assessment, Regional Councillor for the North West Region of CIAT, and Judge for the Student Award for Excellence in Architectural Technology (AT) Report. A passionate advocate for dyslexia awareness, Ann is also proudly affiliated with  “Made By Dyslexia” reflecting her commitment to embracing neurodiversity in the professional sphere.

Richard Alston MCIAT is a seasoned Chartered Architectural Technologist with a wide-ranging career in both residential and commercial clean room design. Co-founding the architectural practice, Alston and Donnelly Architecture, he brings a unique blend of technical expertise and practical experience from his previous roles at Rockwool and Kingspan. Richard is a strong proponent of PassivHaus standards and sustainable building practices, focusing on delivering high-performance, health-promoting environments. His commitment to closing the gap between as-designed and as-built performance underscores his dedication to advancing the architectural industry.

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00:00 Introduction and Overview

01:41 Meet the Speakers: Ann Vanner & Richard Alston

04:36 The Impact of Built Environments on Wellbeing

06:44 Identifying Problems in the Built Environment

11:01 Educational Approaches to Healing Buildings

15:15 Implementing Standards and Frameworks

15:56 Case Study: Passive House Standards

19:42 The Importance of Holistic Design

34:43 Audience Interaction and Final Thoughts

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Key Takeaways

Work Together from the Start

It helps to bring everyone together early - you, your client, the builder, and the rest of the team. When you all talk things through from the beginning, the project runs more smoothly. You’re more likely to end up with a building that works well and does what it’s meant to do.

Keep Learning – and Start Young

Teaching people about buildings and places from a young age helps them make better choices later on. If you’re already working in the industry, it’s good to keep learning so you stay up to date with new tools, better ways of working, and what’s changing in the world around you.

Follow Clear Steps and Standards

Using trusted standards - like the RIBA Plan of Work, PassivHaus, or ISO 19650 - can help you get better results. These standards give you a clear plan to follow, from first ideas to finished building. They also help make sure your building is healthy, saves energy, and works well for the people who use it.

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Know someone who could benefit from listening?  Subscribe and share this episode with your network.

Know someone with a story to tell or a topic to explore?  Email us at atpodcast@ciat.global to nominate a guest or a topic.

Want to learn more about Architectural Technology, how to progress your career, or how to work with a Chartered AT?  Head to architecturaltechnology.com to find out more

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Podcast recorded and edited by: Jon Clayton [Podcasting]

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Disclaimer

The contents and views expressed by individuals in the Where it's AT podcast are their own, and do not necessarily represent the views of the companies they work for or the Host. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered as advice.

Transcript
Ann Vanner:

The amount of time that we spend indoors, if you

Ann Vanner:

manage to get to the age of 80, you'll have spent 72 years inside.

Ann Vanner:

And of that, about a third of that time in your bedroom.

Ann Vanner:

So the indoor environment has a huge impact on our health and wellbeing.

Adam Endacott:

Welcome to Where it's AT.

Adam Endacott:

The podcast from CIAT shining a spotlight on the future focused design

Adam Endacott:

discipline of architectural technology.

Adam Endacott:

Know someone who could benefit from listening.

Adam Endacott:

Subscribe and share this episode with your network.

Adam Endacott:

Today we're exploring how we can use architecture technology to

Adam Endacott:

support health and wellbeing.

Adam Endacott:

Our guest speakers are Ann Vanner FCIAT from Healing Buildings,

Adam Endacott:

and Richard Alston MCIAT from Alston and Donnelly Architecture.

Adam Endacott:

Ann has worked as an architect, a designer for schools and universities,

Adam Endacott:

and a research consultant.

Adam Endacott:

Richard has extensive experience in both residential and

Adam Endacott:

commercial clean room design.

Adam Endacott:

They share what they've learned about how to design spaces

Adam Endacott:

that help people feel better.

Adam Endacott:

They'll also talk about how learning and sharing knowledge

Adam Endacott:

can move the industry forward.

Adam Endacott:

This episode was recorded live at Futurebuild 2025.

Adam Endacott:

So let's get started and find out how buildings can support better health.

Ann Vanner:

Welcome to our talk.

Ann Vanner:

Uh, The healing power of buildings from the point of architectural technologists.

Ann Vanner:

I'm going to do a few introductions and we're gonna talk about some of the

Ann Vanner:

issues and then some of the things that we can do to start thinking about how

Ann Vanner:

we might heal the built environment.

Ann Vanner:

So, first of all, some introductions.

Ann Vanner:

My name is Ann Vanner.

Ann Vanner:

I run a small company called Healing Buildings.

Ann Vanner:

This is a design practice, an educational space, and you'll understand

Ann Vanner:

why that is so important, uh, and a research consultancy as well.

Ann Vanner:

I am also a trained architect.

Ann Vanner:

Architectural technologist.

Ann Vanner:

I am a recovering academic, having spent 10 years in academia having

Ann Vanner:

taught the gentleman in the back there, my colleague here, there were

Ann Vanner:

a couple people yesterday that I met and I'm a living futures accredited

Ann Vanner:

professionals as well, so I spent a lot of time talking about the importance

Ann Vanner:

of nature within the built environment.

Ann Vanner:

You've had enough of me talking.

Ann Vanner:

Gonna pass over to my colleague Richard.

Ann Vanner:

It's now his turn.

Richard Alston:

Alright, good afternoon everyone.

Richard Alston:

My name's Richard Alston and I have an architectural practice

Richard Alston:

based in the Northwest called Alston and Donnelley Architecture.

Richard Alston:

We work nationally and we also do a lot of work in Western

Richard Alston:

Europe and Ireland as well.

Richard Alston:

In my past life, I've worked in technical functions for Rockwall and Kingspan, and

Richard Alston:

I am currently the technical consultant for duo, which is monolithic clay block

Richard Alston:

work where we're aiming and promoting getting rid of the outdated cavity

Richard Alston:

and building in single skin masonry.

Richard Alston:

My day-to-day work is pretty much split.

Richard Alston:

Fairly evenly 50 50 to residential and commercial clean room design.

Richard Alston:

So I know you'll all be familiar with residential design, but

Richard Alston:

many of you probably won't be as familiar with clean room design.

Richard Alston:

So in a nutshell a clean room is a, um, a space, a room, or a suite of

Richard Alston:

rooms where you control, airborne particles, air changes, temperature or

Richard Alston:

humidity for a manufacturing purpose.

Richard Alston:

So these are highly regulated industries and how this feeds into

Richard Alston:

our presentation here is I'm really interested in the difference between

Richard Alston:

residential and commercial clean room design, because a lot of what we've

Richard Alston:

heard over the past few days, a lot of the talks here at future build.

Richard Alston:

There's a lot of people saying that, you know, the, they do a, a, a

Richard Alston:

building and then we struggle to get feedback or post occupancy figures.

Richard Alston:

Um, we can't close the loop or bridge that gap between the as

Richard Alston:

designed and as-built performance.

Richard Alston:

But strangely enough, we have no such issues in the clean room

Richard Alston:

sector, like absolutely none.

Richard Alston:

So I'm not quite sure.

Richard Alston:

Well, I am sure I do know some of the reasons, but some of

Richard Alston:

those reasons will explore.

Richard Alston:

The differences between residential and, and the commercial clean room world.

Ann Vanner:

Fabulous.

Ann Vanner:

Thank you.

Ann Vanner:

So the open question that we had for you, you must all have been in

Ann Vanner:

a space where you've just thought, uh, it just doesn't quite work.

Ann Vanner:

Whether that's an office that doesn't have a window, uh, whether

Ann Vanner:

that's a a, a, a waiting room for a dentist or a GP practice.

Ann Vanner:

And actually the environment itself is having an impact on how you feel about

Ann Vanner:

whatever it is that you are in there.

Ann Vanner:

So we're talking about the built environment and how the built environment

Ann Vanner:

has an impact on our health and wellbeing As professionals within the built

Ann Vanner:

environment, we have a huge role to play in how we ensure that we design.

Ann Vanner:

Build commission and monitor the built environment so that what we design is

Ann Vanner:

actually what gets built and what actually happens over the lifetime of the building.

Ann Vanner:

When I talk about healing, what I'm meaning is that the, I feel that the built

Ann Vanner:

environment is broken, and we're talking more about more than just aesthetics.

Ann Vanner:

We're talking not just about fixing what's broken, but actually creating spaces.

Ann Vanner:

That actively promote people and their ability to thrive in, uh, a space.

Ann Vanner:

When I've done this before, in the past, I've had a picture of a sickly looking

Ann Vanner:

plant and sort of ask the question, if the plant wasn't doing what, it wasn't

Ann Vanner:

what it was supposed to do, it wasn't green and healthy, we wouldn't sort

Ann Vanner:

of go to the plant, it's your fault.

Ann Vanner:

We would think about the environment that the plant is in.

Ann Vanner:

Have we watered it enough?

Ann Vanner:

Is there enough sunlight?

Ann Vanner:

Uh, are the plant, are the leaves too dusty?

Ann Vanner:

We move the plants and we put it in an environment where it can thrive.

Ann Vanner:

And effectively that's what we are.

Ann Vanner:

We are plants.

Ann Vanner:

We need water.

Ann Vanner:

We need a little bit of sunlight.

Ann Vanner:

We need healthy environments for us to thrive in, but we don't have that within

Ann Vanner:

the built environment at the moment.

Ann Vanner:

So the goal of this talk is to start thinking about sort of what is broken.

Ann Vanner:

What the problems are and importantly, how we are going to fix it.

Ann Vanner:

And I think both Richard and I feel that education has a

Ann Vanner:

huge role to play in this bit.

Ann Vanner:

So what is the problem now?

Ann Vanner:

I've just meant, I've just written very quickly, sort of six areas where

Ann Vanner:

I think we have real issues when it comes to the built environment.

Ann Vanner:

So I'm gonna just go through the list.

Ann Vanner:

I'm sure other people will have, uh, different opinions,

Ann Vanner:

different views on this.

Ann Vanner:

We'll be able to add to the list.

Ann Vanner:

I'm not saying I'm an expert on this, but we'll start with

Ann Vanner:

the sick building syndrome.

Ann Vanner:

The World Health Organization see this as a, as a major issue.

Ann Vanner:

Environments where we have poor indoor air quality, we have toxic materials

Ann Vanner:

'cause we are super insulating spaces.

Ann Vanner:

We're not thinking about our ventilation.

Ann Vanner:

Lack of lights.

Ann Vanner:

We're sort of in the middle of London near water, yet we can't see it from here.

Ann Vanner:

The amount of time that we spend indoors, if you manage to get to

Ann Vanner:

the age of 80, you'll have spent 72 years inside, uh, and of that, about

Ann Vanner:

a third of that time in your bedroom.

Ann Vanner:

So the in, in the indoor environment has a huge impact on our health

Ann Vanner:

and wellbeing the environmental damage that we are doing.

Ann Vanner:

Whether that's to do with our over reliance on concrete steel, uh, and

Ann Vanner:

non-renewable materials and how that has an impact on the, uh, air quality,

Ann Vanner:

the impact of urban heat islands.

Ann Vanner:

So when I was in education, we would often talk about heating,

Ann Vanner:

lighting, and ventilation.

Ann Vanner:

We now need to all think about air conditioning.

Ann Vanner:

The amount of construction waste that we send to landfill is just horrific.

Ann Vanner:

The social disconnect.

Ann Vanner:

So people are for, or buildings are for people, not just the function.

Ann Vanner:

We need to remember that we need to design for the people who

Ann Vanner:

are going to be in those spaces.

Ann Vanner:

The fact that we don't have enough green spaces, the World Health Organization

Ann Vanner:

against sort of, uh, attributed green spaces to at least a 30% reduction

Ann Vanner:

in people's depression, access to greenery and access to natural life.

Ann Vanner:

Other mental health impacts noise, the acoustics.

Ann Vanner:

We don't sleep well.

Ann Vanner:

We can't ever switch our ears off.

Ann Vanner:

We can switch our, we can close our eyes, but we can't switch our ears off.

Ann Vanner:

We don't design for our acoustics, overcrowding feeling too close to people.

Ann Vanner:

While we are a species that enjoys being in groups, we don't enjoy being

Ann Vanner:

with lots of people we don't know.

Ann Vanner:

The lack of greenery.

Ann Vanner:

There was a wonderful talk here yesterday regarding the concept of biophilia.

Ann Vanner:

Go and look that up, but that the impact of the lack of greenery, our educational

Ann Vanner:

system is failing us as well whether we are talking about outdated systems, so

Ann Vanner:

educational architectural courses, still allowing the conversation around concrete.

Ann Vanner:

But when I talk about education, I'm also talking about making sure that

Ann Vanner:

we educate the future clients, whether that's the nurses or the facilities

Ann Vanner:

managers and people like that.

Ann Vanner:

We've all interacted with a building today.

Ann Vanner:

Not all of us will have had a cup of coffee or a cup of tea, but

Ann Vanner:

every one of us has interacted with the built environment.

Ann Vanner:

And if we were better at educating the young people about the importance

Ann Vanner:

of the built environment, not only would we have better designers and

Ann Vanner:

commissioners and building control people and everything like that.

Ann Vanner:

But we, I think we would also have better people who would be able to

Ann Vanner:

integrate impact on the brief and the stage zero and stage one of,

Ann Vanner:

um, sort of the RIBA plan of works.

Ann Vanner:

We have a huge issue with, uh, jobs in construction, uh, higher

Ann Vanner:

suicide rates workplace fatalities, uh, and an aging workforce.

Ann Vanner:

We're not attracting people into construction jobs.

Ann Vanner:

Uh, and then the fact that we are not talking about sustainability

Ann Vanner:

nearly enough now, that's were just six points that I came up with.

Ann Vanner:

I'm sure there are lots of others.

Ann Vanner:

Richard, do you want to take it from there?

Richard Alston:

Yeah.

Richard Alston:

And, and I think just adding on to one of your points and is if we educate the

Richard Alston:

young people, the young people of today are then gonna be our clients of tomorrow.

Richard Alston:

So it's not just about, uh, you, it's gonna hit you in the pocket.

Richard Alston:

You know, if we get that right.

Richard Alston:

Then ultimately those young people will, will grow up and then they'll be the

Richard Alston:

decision makers, and then we'll be able to drive more value from, from projects.

Ann Vanner:

So pathways to healing.

Ann Vanner:

There are many and the, we have a big, big task ahead of us.

Ann Vanner:

Well, I say the.

Ann Vanner:

When we were talking about this, uh, presentation, we kept coming back to

Ann Vanner:

the conversation around education.

Ann Vanner:

We do really need to think about how we educate the next generation into the

Ann Vanner:

importance of the built environment.

Ann Vanner:

When I talk about sort of that as a next educator, I talk about it in

Ann Vanner:

the idea of across the whole lifeline of someone's educational journey.

Ann Vanner:

So talking about people at primary school.

Ann Vanner:

So in getting them to thinking, thinking about the built environment,

Ann Vanner:

there are some wonderful, um, groups and organizations

Ann Vanner:

who are beginning to do that.

Ann Vanner:

Thinking about what happens at secondary education, I am quite cross

Ann Vanner:

that my children have had pretty much the same education that I have had.

Ann Vanner:

Uh, I read something about 10 years ago when I started in education where it said

Ann Vanner:

that the people who were about five years old, they would be doing jobs when they

Ann Vanner:

are 25 that we didn't even have names for.

Ann Vanner:

And that made me think as an educator, well how am I supposed

Ann Vanner:

to educate for those kinds of jobs?

Ann Vanner:

However, my child, who was at five at the time now, who is now 16.

Ann Vanner:

Has pretty much done the same.

Ann Vanner:

GCSEs, sat in the same kinds of classrooms, uh, and has had very

Ann Vanner:

little education, whether that's around sustainability, social

Ann Vanner:

equity, the built environment, stroke, the natural environment.

Ann Vanner:

So there's a wonderful lady called Alice Watson, whom, who I'm doing

Ann Vanner:

some work with who has something called Classroom of Your Own.

Ann Vanner:

And she is advocating that there needs to be A-G-C-S-E in the built environment.

Ann Vanner:

Again, there is this idea that that would lead to have us having sort of better

Ann Vanner:

informed people when we people go and study architectural or architectural

Ann Vanner:

technology or quantities surveying.

Ann Vanner:

My argument is actually, it would just mean that we have

Ann Vanner:

better educated citizens.

Ann Vanner:

People understand how to use their homes, how to use their offices,

Ann Vanner:

engage in conversations around heating, ventilation, uh, how we

Ann Vanner:

adapt buildings and things like that.

Ann Vanner:

The conversation that was had here yesterday about, uh, about

Ann Vanner:

biophilia was there should also be A-G-C-S-E in the natural environment.

Ann Vanner:

So again, students aren't taking up things like geography and biophilia, but

Ann Vanner:

actually if we had A-G-C-S-E or a combined GCSE that had the natural environment

Ann Vanner:

and the built environment sort of there in one place, and if you did something.

Ann Vanner:

Built a dam, for example, what is the impact for the built environment

Ann Vanner:

and what is the impact for the natural environment So that both,

Ann Vanner:

both those things have a seat at the table 'cause that is so important.

Ann Vanner:

We also then need to think about how we need to reeducate our degree programs.

Ann Vanner:

Some of the A QQ and I know I shouldn't talk in sort of, technical speak.

Ann Vanner:

Doesn't even mention things like sustainability, biophilia.

Ann Vanner:

And, and as I've sort of advocated that the built environment has a huge

Ann Vanner:

impact on our health and wellbeing.

Ann Vanner:

We also need to think about lifelong learning.

Ann Vanner:

Uh, longer than gone are the days where you did a degree and you went into work

Ann Vanner:

and that was your learning pretty much done or dusted, or that you could rely

Ann Vanner:

on people from industry to come out to your practice and do a CPD for you.

Ann Vanner:

We need to think about lifelong learning so that people are constantly updated.

Ann Vanner:

On new processes, policies environmental impacts, new ways of not just using

Ann Vanner:

new products, but new processes.

Ann Vanner:

And then we also need to think about the third sector.

Ann Vanner:

So to the el, the elderly people who still are wanting to be ab

Ann Vanner:

uh, useful and have, uh, roles.

Ann Vanner:

So the, the idea of the sort of third age universities for people who are

Ann Vanner:

pensioners, who could actually, with the knowledge and the experience

Ann Vanner:

that they have, and some CPDs actually feed back into this loop.

Ann Vanner:

So education and feedback are sort of quite big things

Ann Vanner:

that we are talking about.

Ann Vanner:

I think that's me done for education.

Richard Alston:

So if we assume.

Richard Alston:

That we've got the educational aspect sorted.

Richard Alston:

I think there's a lot of things that Anne's probably covered that that may

Richard Alston:

well be some of you that think that's all, they're all, they all sound very nice.

Richard Alston:

They're nice things to have.

Richard Alston:

But how do we put that into practice?

Richard Alston:

And I think it's important to remember there's, there's lots of frameworks,

Richard Alston:

guides, um, standards that are already out there today that we can use and adopt.

Richard Alston:

We don't have to reinvent the wheel, so.

Richard Alston:

For example, we've got the, um, the RIBA plan of works.

Richard Alston:

We've got, uh, the passive house standard that I'm quite a big fan of, and we've

Richard Alston:

got something, uh, called ISO 1 9 6 5 oh.

Richard Alston:

So if we, if we pull together a bit of a, uh, like a, a, an imaginary

Richard Alston:

case study of what we've got, so we've now got an educated client.

Richard Alston:

And this client has, say they're a social housing landlord and they've got a hundred

Richard Alston:

house portfolio and they want to fully revamp all of their, all of their stock.

Richard Alston:

So you, you start with the RIBA plan of work.

Richard Alston:

So you start with a strategic definition.

Richard Alston:

So is there a, is there a need?

Richard Alston:

Is there a business case?

Richard Alston:

So there's a client, there's stock, there's a desire.

Richard Alston:

So that, that's your, you know, there, there is a business

Richard Alston:

case to do this project.

Richard Alston:

And then as with any project you need to move on to, um, formalizing

Richard Alston:

a, a, a brief, so stage one.

Richard Alston:

So with this, you know, to hit a lot of the things that Anne's talked

Richard Alston:

about, we could say, right, we're gonna adhere to the passive house standard.

Richard Alston:

So we've got these hundred houses, and at stage one, while formulating the brief.

Richard Alston:

We're going to say, right, we're gonna adhere to Nfit.

Richard Alston:

So the passive house retrofit, we're gonna use the RIBA plan of work.

Richard Alston:

We're gonna use the passive house overlay for the plan of work, and

Richard Alston:

then we're gonna use, um, ISO 1 9 6 5 oh, which is a, um, a BIM standard.

Richard Alston:

And a lot of the conversations about how do we how do we close

Richard Alston:

that gap between the, um, as designed and as-built performance.

Richard Alston:

We can cover that through adhering to those principles.

Richard Alston:

So if we, if we build to a standard and then we use the, um, the RIBA stages

Richard Alston:

with a focus on stage six and seven.

Richard Alston:

So handover the correct and proper commissioning of MVHR

Richard Alston:

systems, et cetera, et cetera.

Richard Alston:

And then in use, which advocates for monitoring through the

Richard Alston:

life cycle of a project.

Richard Alston:

And then if we use the ISO 1, 9 6 5 oh.

Richard Alston:

Which is a international, unified standard for the better collaboration

Richard Alston:

and management of a building through its life and post life cycle.

Richard Alston:

So occupancy.

Richard Alston:

So, you know, these, these systems exist.

Richard Alston:

We don't have to reinvent the wheel.

Richard Alston:

So when I hear people saying, well, that, that's all well and good talking

Richard Alston:

about the, the aspirational things that.

Richard Alston:

Anne has mentioned for me, it's, it should be fairly straightforward.

Richard Alston:

So in the case study we designed to nfi, the performance is as

Richard Alston:

per the design, everything's validated, commissioned properly.

Richard Alston:

You measure the, the, the, the properties, post occupancy and the performances

Richard Alston:

as per the design criteria, and the resulting, uh, factor is a healthy home.

Ann Vanner:

It sh it should be fairly easy, but for some

Ann Vanner:

reason we are d not doing that.

Ann Vanner:

There were lots of conversations, uh, around here yesterday about

Ann Vanner:

the impact of what we des, what we design, what we build, what that

Ann Vanner:

commissioning isn't happening, and what we get don't actually tie up.

Ann Vanner:

And there's this thing called the performance gap.

Ann Vanner:

So what we want and what we get are huge.

Ann Vanner:

Having spoken to sort of, uh, Richard over this idea around sort

Ann Vanner:

of clean rooms, that is something that just simply doesn't happen.

Ann Vanner:

You have a very strict, uh, strategic case study in your RIBA plan of works.

Ann Vanner:

That means that you have thought about the business case right at

Ann Vanner:

the beginning, but if I take it back, I suppose, to a slightly more

Ann Vanner:

sort of holistic sort of approach.

Ann Vanner:

We really do need healthy environments.

Ann Vanner:

The research is out there, whether that's about classrooms that demonstrate that

Ann Vanner:

children who have views of the outside or have the ability to open windows

Ann Vanner:

and close windows have a greater, uh, attendance and greater productivity.

Ann Vanner:

When we think about the home, if we have healthy homes where people

Ann Vanner:

are actually thriving, that allows people, then there are fewer, uh.

Ann Vanner:

Appointments with gps, which has saved on the NHS.

Ann Vanner:

When we think about workplaces, uh, the research shows that people who

Ann Vanner:

have the ability to open a window or to regulate their temperature

Ann Vanner:

or to personalize their desks.

Ann Vanner:

They tend to be more productive, less absenteeism, and people

Ann Vanner:

are able to recruit better.

Ann Vanner:

So people, there is better retention in those jobs and places like that.

Ann Vanner:

So I'm sure we must have all been in spaces where we've gone, oh,

Ann Vanner:

this is an absolutely awful space.

Ann Vanner:

I. When I start talking about healthy buildings, I talk about the nine

Ann Vanner:

parameters that we are talking about.

Ann Vanner:

I'm gonna ask the audience, does anyone want to sort of gimme an idea of the

Ann Vanner:

kinds of things that we are looking at when we're talking about healthy homes?

Ann Vanner:

I'll make the easy one, uh, temperature.

Ann Vanner:

Anyone want to come in with anything else?

Ann Vanner:

Moisture.

Ann Vanner:

Moisture is really important.

Ann Vanner:

Yes.

Ann Vanner:

Humidity.

Ann Vanner:

I'd almost go to the point that actually we need to forget about

Ann Vanner:

worrying about temperature.

Ann Vanner:

We need to worry about the humidity in spaces.

Ann Vanner:

Anyone over on this side?

Ann Vanner:

Lighting?

Ann Vanner:

Yes.

Ann Vanner:

The importance of natural light.

Ann Vanner:

And if we can't have a natural light, then actually minimize the daylight

Ann Vanner:

or really think about the lighting.

Ann Vanner:

Have different kinds of lighting control so people have options and what have you.

Ann Vanner:

Anyone else?

Ann Vanner:

I've got four so far.

Ann Vanner:

Ventilation is really, really important nowadays.

Ann Vanner:

We are super insulating buildings, but we have forgotten about ventilation and

Ann Vanner:

there are some really interesting things that we should be doing with ventilation.

Ann Vanner:

So having spent some time in Germany, they have this wonderful concept where

Ann Vanner:

you took, they burp a house, so they literally open all their windows for

Ann Vanner:

about 15 minutes before they go to bed or after they've been in a bathroom.

Ann Vanner:

That allows almost a full exchange of air.

Ann Vanner:

But it doesn't cool the building down.

Ann Vanner:

So people have this worry that if they open windows, all the heat

Ann Vanner:

that they've put in the building is going to go outta there.

Ann Vanner:

But the fact that they've actually heated the building means that

Ann Vanner:

they're just changing the air.

Ann Vanner:

Brilliant one.

Ann Vanner:

Anyone else?

Ann Vanner:

I. Views of nature.

Ann Vanner:

Yes, absolutely.

Ann Vanner:

That whole concept is sort of biophilia using nature.

Ann Vanner:

We are designed to see horizontal planes better than vertical planes.

Ann Vanner:

That's because we've come from the Savannah.

Ann Vanner:

So when we think about sort of urban environments, they tend to stress us out.

Ann Vanner:

We are designed to see more green than any other color.

Ann Vanner:

So that, uh, when we were in the Savannah and things like that.

Ann Vanner:

The idea of biophilia is that idea that when we look out

Ann Vanner:

onto nature, it's relaxing.

Ann Vanner:

Uh, we are part of nature, but it doesn't just mean that we need views.

Ann Vanner:

The, um, research shows that if we have pictures of nature or materials that are

Ann Vanner:

tactile that we can touch and things like that, that has almost the same impact.

Ann Vanner:

Anyway, I've forgotten how many, I've got two, but go on.

Ann Vanner:

Air quality again, is a really, really big one.

Ann Vanner:

Now that we have super insulated these buildings and then we put

Ann Vanner:

all sorts of stuff in there that causes really bad air quality.

Ann Vanner:

Everything from the carpets, the paint, the cleaning products, the products

Ann Vanner:

that we put on ourselves, uh, have a huge impact on our air quality.

Ann Vanner:

And the research is showing that not only do do we absorb.

Ann Vanner:

The sort of particulates through our nose and our mouth, we actually

Ann Vanner:

absorb it through our skin as well.

Ann Vanner:

So we really need to worry about sort of air quality.

Ann Vanner:

Anyone else for something else?

Ann Vanner:

Yes.

Ann Vanner:

That sort of offgassing from uh, materials again is really important.

Ann Vanner:

I think that sort of almost ties in with the ventilation and, and, and air

Ann Vanner:

quality, but really thinking about.

Ann Vanner:

What we are bringing into our buildings.

Ann Vanner:

Anybody else?

Ann Vanner:

Amenity space?

Ann Vanner:

Yes.

Ann Vanner:

The ability that, well.

Ann Vanner:

I'm gonna, I'm gonna slightly expand on that and talk about storage clutter

Ann Vanner:

and the stress of those sort of spaces.

Ann Vanner:

So I amenity space to go outside immediately.

Ann Vanner:

Space to actually hang your washing up, washing outside, but also the,

Ann Vanner:

the fact that our houses, we have the smallest houses in Europe.

Ann Vanner:

And we are expecting sort of six or seven people to live in these sort of spaces.

Ann Vanner:

What really annoys me about this, and as an architect, I think I can sort of say

Ann Vanner:

this, you sell a three bedroom house, but actually a third bedroom is a box room.

Ann Vanner:

That poor third child, that second child is not going to have a desk.

Ann Vanner:

Does that then have an impact on their educational ability?

Ann Vanner:

Dunno, or a dining room that's on the plan says it has a dining table,

Ann Vanner:

actually becomes a circulation space and everyone then eats their meals

Ann Vanner:

from, uh, sitting on, on their lap.

Ann Vanner:

Anything else?

Ann Vanner:

I am gonna go on.

Ann Vanner:

One of my favorite ones is acoustics.

Ann Vanner:

We simply do not design for our ears.

Ann Vanner:

Uh, we can.

Ann Vanner:

I don't like going to the dentist.

Ann Vanner:

I lie there in the chair, I can close my eyes.

Ann Vanner:

I can't see the drill, but I can hear it and I can do nothing about that.

Ann Vanner:

I cannot switch my ears off.

Ann Vanner:

So even when we are asleep.

Ann Vanner:

Our ears are working.

Ann Vanner:

So the impact that that has then on sort of sleep, uh, on sort of productivity,

Ann Vanner:

whether we're in an office, educational establishment, it is absolutely huge.

Adam Endacott:

Know someone with a story to tell or a topic to

Adam Endacott:

explore email atpodcast@ciat.global to nominate a guest or a topic.

Richard Alston:

So all of the issues we've talked about there, the vast

Richard Alston:

majority of things such as air quality lighting, heating bills.

Richard Alston:

All of that can be covered via passive house.

Richard Alston:

So if you went back to our fictional case study and our educated client had

Richard Alston:

adopted or put passive house into a brief from, if, if anyone isn't familiar, uh,

Richard Alston:

with the passive house standard, you're focusing on, on, on good quality, high

Richard Alston:

levels of insulation thermal bridge, free construction high quality windows.

Richard Alston:

Uh, mechanical ventilation and heat recovery.

Richard Alston:

Uh, a prescribed heat demand.

Richard Alston:

Have I said four or five?

Richard Alston:

I think I've missed air tightness.

Richard Alston:

So that one standard covers all of all, all of that.

Richard Alston:

Now, there was a few people that said some of the wider standards that are outside

Richard Alston:

of the home, such as amenity space.

Richard Alston:

So you could easily adopt, uh, another standard such as like

Richard Alston:

brim or something like that.

Richard Alston:

So.

Richard Alston:

All of these standards that they exist and are there.

Richard Alston:

And I think one of the problems why we've got at the moment over insulated or poorly

Richard Alston:

insulated homes is because we've got all the answers, but they're not necessarily

Richard Alston:

the answers that people want to hear.

Richard Alston:

So people say, right, I, I wanna look, I want to, I want to hit all

Richard Alston:

of the criteria we've discussed.

Richard Alston:

And you go, well, you can do passive house, but that's not what

Richard Alston:

the answer people want because they don't wanna do passive house.

Richard Alston:

They wanna do exactly what they're doing now, but hit some really high standard.

Richard Alston:

So what we do is, I, I think in the UK we tend to charge off, um, with a brief

Richard Alston:

and we design with an aspiration here.

Richard Alston:

And then we value engineer, which just means ripping the guts out of the project

Richard Alston:

and taking all the good stuff out.

Richard Alston:

And we end up with a specification that's here.

Richard Alston:

And then we're surprised when we pick the lowest bidding contractor and

Richard Alston:

the as-built performance is here.

Richard Alston:

So I think if we were to just adopt those standards in an early stage of the project

Richard Alston:

and have that initial collaboration with a contractor, it would solve a

Richard Alston:

lot of these, a lot of these points.

Richard Alston:

And I have mentioned passive house.

Richard Alston:

But it doesn't have to be passive house.

Richard Alston:

But I think what we're seeing at the moment is a lot of people, I hear

Richard Alston:

day to day people saying, I want to do a nearly passive house, or want

Richard Alston:

to use the passive house principles.

Richard Alston:

But what that means is people will cherry pick the easiest one to hit.

Richard Alston:

So I'll go, Ooh, well I'm putting in a hundred mil of insulation,

Richard Alston:

so I'll put in 150 mil instead.

Richard Alston:

So then you end up over insulating the property.

Richard Alston:

You are not using PHPP to balance the five uh, factors.

Richard Alston:

So then you get a poorly designed house that then leads

Richard Alston:

to the occupant discomfort.

Richard Alston:

So you can't do a a, a a nearly standard.

Richard Alston:

You can't do a nearly ISO 1, 9, 6 5.

Richard Alston:

Oh.

Richard Alston:

You either do it or you don't.

Ann Vanner:

Super.

Ann Vanner:

And that goes, I think back to that sort of original conversation that we started

Ann Vanner:

about the importance of education.

Ann Vanner:

That if we educate people to think not only about sort of what

Ann Vanner:

a built environment looks like, but how it performs, what is

Ann Vanner:

actually happening in those spaces.

Ann Vanner:

Thinking about the policies, the legislation.

Ann Vanner:

I mentioned the issue with construction that we are not, uh, uh, enticing

Ann Vanner:

young people into the industry.

Ann Vanner:

We start addressing some of those, uh, problems that we, we have in the home.

Ann Vanner:

You were gonna talk about the fabric first?

Richard Alston:

Yeah.

Richard Alston:

So really the, if you were, whatever standard you want to adhere to, if

Richard Alston:

you adopt a fabric first approach, and I think what we do in the uk.

Richard Alston:

We we think we've got very poor housing stock, but we don't wanna do the hard fix.

Richard Alston:

So what we wanna do is take the housing stock and put like a solar

Richard Alston:

panel on the roof or an air source heat pump in the back garden.

Richard Alston:

And then we get like a, we might get a good EPC, but then the as-built

Richard Alston:

performance is absolutely terrible because you're still working

Richard Alston:

with a, a really leaky building.

Richard Alston:

So if we approached everything with the fundamentals of doing a fabric

Richard Alston:

first approach, whether that was passive house or something else.

Richard Alston:

So if we got the, the insulation, the daylight in the air tightness

Richard Alston:

and mechanical ventilation and heat recovery, if we could do that first.

Richard Alston:

And even if you can't get MVHR in, if you can just solve the ventilation problems

Richard Alston:

and educate people and tenants correctly.

Richard Alston:

Then you can move on to the wider the, if you get the foundations

Richard Alston:

right, everything else follows.

Richard Alston:

So if you do your fabric first, you can then lead onto the whole house where

Richard Alston:

you can look outside of the property.

Ann Vanner:

Yes.

Ann Vanner:

And see what other things can actually be brought into that.

Ann Vanner:

And we can avoid then things like eco bling where we are sticking things

Ann Vanner:

retrospectively onto the building.

Ann Vanner:

We mentioned the RIBA plan of works, uh, as, uh, an architect, it is

Ann Vanner:

something that I think quite highly of it in terms of a process that is,

Ann Vanner:

uh, taught that we should follow.

Ann Vanner:

However, in the conversations that Richard and I were having sort of

Ann Vanner:

preparing this talk and things like that, we felt that there were sort

Ann Vanner:

of areas where it could be enhanced.

Ann Vanner:

Next one of them was actually, let's see if we can think about the stage eight.

Ann Vanner:

Now.

Ann Vanner:

I know that this one is being sort of talked about.

Ann Vanner:

But let's push for that, which is the in use and the demolition.

Ann Vanner:

If we are having to think about how we take a building down at

Ann Vanner:

the moment we start designing it, then we almost, we need a stage in

Ann Vanner:

that that has the procedures and policies in place, and that should

Ann Vanner:

actually almost be then the starting.

Ann Vanner:

Position for, uh, meeting a new client that you can advocate.

Ann Vanner:

You can explain sort of what would happen to their building at, its the end of its

Ann Vanner:

life and how you take the building down.

Ann Vanner:

So we are not then sending masses of material to landfill sites.

Ann Vanner:

So we're thinking about how we de deconstruct a building before we've

Ann Vanner:

even started to build, to build it.

Ann Vanner:

That then leads into all those sort of questions about the

Ann Vanner:

materiality that we are going to use.

Ann Vanner:

Who is able to build it?

Ann Vanner:

So have we got the right people who can design the building?

Ann Vanner:

Have we got the right people who can, uh, build the building?

Ann Vanner:

Have we got the right people who can commission the building and have

Ann Vanner:

we got the right people to monitor and manage the building again?

Ann Vanner:

Our IBA plan of works.

Ann Vanner:

That part of the whole design process is a really, really tiny part of it.

Ann Vanner:

Whether we're looking at it from a time point of view or

Ann Vanner:

from a cost point of view.

Ann Vanner:

We're designing buildings for a lifespan of 60 years.

Ann Vanner:

If it takes us 18 months to build the building, we also need to make sure that

Ann Vanner:

whoever is going to be managing those buildings really understands all the

Ann Vanner:

systems that we have put into place.

Ann Vanner:

So this is a call out for facilities managers.

Ann Vanner:

All those people who manage buildings, do they really understand when we

Ann Vanner:

hand over either a folder, I'm of that age where it was physical folder,

Ann Vanner:

here, have the folder, this is how your building actually functions.

Ann Vanner:

Or as Richard was talking about before, actually a BIM model.

Ann Vanner:

You are handing over that model and you have someone in there who really

Ann Vanner:

does understand how that building works and you work with those people.

Ann Vanner:

For at least 12 months.

Ann Vanner:

So you've gone through a whole, uh, cycle of, uh, the built environment.

Ann Vanner:

Thinking about it from a seasonal point of view.

Ann Vanner:

You've looked at it in terms of an, an occupational point of view, that

Ann Vanner:

you've really thought about that.

Richard Alston:

And if you have put the, the focus on stage six and seven

Richard Alston:

so they Correct and proper handover.

Richard Alston:

Um, and then in use at the early stages, in stage one, within the brief.

Richard Alston:

Then the cost is accounted for and rather than getting to the end of the project,

Richard Alston:

and then the client having a question of, well, who's gonna pay for this?

Richard Alston:

It's, it's already budgeted, factored, and accounted for in the

Richard Alston:

plan, but it does mean you need to adhere to some sort of structure.

Ann Vanner:

Well, that's it.

Ann Vanner:

You need to define the pathway, don't you?

Ann Vanner:

And this pathway actually does need to be circular so that there is a

Ann Vanner:

feedback loop, whether that's about sort of the education, the design

Ann Vanner:

processes, the policies, the practice.

Ann Vanner:

Where are the sticking points?

Ann Vanner:

So have we got the designers?

Ann Vanner:

Have we got the people to run the BIM model?

Ann Vanner:

Once we have handed over the BI model who is maintaining and looking after

Ann Vanner:

that so that it, it serves the purpose for which it was designed and it is

Ann Vanner:

there for the next sort of 60 years.

Ann Vanner:

So that whole idea of correct commissioning, ensuring that people have

Ann Vanner:

their user manuals and things like that.

Richard Alston:

And I think that is bringing us towards the end of the time.

Richard Alston:

But have we got time for some questions?

Ann Vanner:

Right, well, I will, I will pose a question.

Ann Vanner:

To Richard.

Ann Vanner:

So the title actually talked about the architectural technology for health.

Ann Vanner:

Where do we as architectural technologies have an impact in how

Ann Vanner:

we design for healthy buildings?

Richard Alston:

Uh, I think as everything we've talked about is really like holistic

Richard Alston:

design is needed and people are needed to pull all these different facets together.

Richard Alston:

'cause we need greater collaboration and less working together in, well

Richard Alston:

working individually in silos.

Richard Alston:

So I think as ATS we are perfectly placed, um, to manage that process.

Richard Alston:

Um, especially from a a, an iso BIM perspective.

Richard Alston:

But also from the perspective of a, a lot of the architectural models will

Richard Alston:

then form the basis for the wider models, the structural, mechanical, electrical,

Richard Alston:

and everything else to feed into.

Richard Alston:

So I, I, I think it's a, I think now is a fantastic time to be involved in, in at.

Ann Vanner:

Absolutely.

Ann Vanner:

But I also think that there is something where we might have to

Ann Vanner:

think a little bit braver about.

Ann Vanner:

Undergraduate programs to try and get rid of this idea of sort of working in silos.

Ann Vanner:

So on the continent, uh, they do an undergraduate program,

Ann Vanner:

which is basically like a built environment undergraduate program.

Ann Vanner:

So you go there, you do three years, and, uh, it, you do a bit of conti

Ann Vanner:

surveying, building, surveying, land surveying, architecture,

Ann Vanner:

architectural technology, structural engineering, and things like that.

Ann Vanner:

And then you use your masters as a way to then sort of do the specialty, so you

Ann Vanner:

have already understood the importance of what other professions are doing.

Ann Vanner:

Likewise, I sometimes think that the RIBA plan of work, which

Ann Vanner:

is appears often quite linear.

Ann Vanner:

Uh, we need to sort of either work on the graphics or work on sort of how we

Ann Vanner:

implement that we need to have people.

Ann Vanner:

A lot more people at the beginning of the conversation.

Ann Vanner:

So I always use the example of Lancaster Co-Housing.

Ann Vanner:

I'm from the north.

Ann Vanner:

There was a co-housing project in Lancaster, which is

Ann Vanner:

where Richard's practice is.

Ann Vanner:

They were a group of people who were gonna build their own homes.

Ann Vanner:

They had worked out themselves that they wanted to design these

Ann Vanner:

to a passive house standard.

Ann Vanner:

They had also worked out that the contractors in the area didn't

Ann Vanner:

really know what passive house was.

Ann Vanner:

So what they did was identify a contractor or who was willing to

Ann Vanner:

work with them, and that contractor was brought in right at the front.

Ann Vanner:

So at stage zero, the contractor was already appointed.

Ann Vanner:

It did mean that they didn't have a tender process.

Ann Vanner:

So that you could argue whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.

Ann Vanner:

You know, they save time, money, uh, but actually they had the contractor already

Ann Vanner:

at the beginning, so the contractor was part of the strategic brief.

Ann Vanner:

He was part of the business case.

Ann Vanner:

He was there when they started putting the brief together, the

Ann Vanner:

planning, he had started thinking about the details, the logistics

Ann Vanner:

of the site, and things like that.

Ann Vanner:

What it's ended up with is a series of about 25 houses, old passive

Ann Vanner:

house standard within budget, within time, and an educated client.

Ann Vanner:

So the, the Lancaster Cohousing, they do a lot of talks about that and educated

Ann Vanner:

contractors by just rethinking where you start, where you bring people in.

Ann Vanner:

There was a question over there.

Ann Vanner:

Oh, a comment.

Ann Vanner:

Go on.

Ann Vanner:

Audience Member #1: So first of all, I just need to introduce myself.

Ann Vanner:

So I'm a Brim a so I'm a CS specialist for a contract company now.

Ann Vanner:

So I'm a Brim, AP neighbors assessor, LCA specialist and a international architect.

Ann Vanner:

I work a little bit in architecture like 10 years.

Ann Vanner:

And then after that I work in sustainability now.

Ann Vanner:

So because we're working with contract now, I agree the education is really

Ann Vanner:

important because now we face.

Ann Vanner:

Like, I think resistance from people about applying what you said already, all

Ann Vanner:

of them, like, uh, how to provide that indoor environment for all the buildings.

Ann Vanner:

How, uh, to work with like energy and all of these standards as

Ann Vanner:

well that you mentioned earlier.

Ann Vanner:

So now Brim, uh, also with what we said you said just now, so Brim, uh,

Ann Vanner:

has a new, um, manual coming out.

Ann Vanner:

So this one now.

Ann Vanner:

Has a condition that the contractor should be from R-I-B-S-H two in the project.

Ann Vanner:

So some of the project already started to, to use that now.

Ann Vanner:

Um, but we normally now is still having that education problem and

Ann Vanner:

knowledge problem, because now we used to do like workshops for project

Ann Vanner:

team from the beginning of the project to tell them how to do this.

Ann Vanner:

it's, it's, it's really a headache for us as well.

Ann Vanner:

Because we need to manage all of, all of the process of educating people like, uh,

Ann Vanner:

the site team or the project team plus the clients as well, because sometimes

Ann Vanner:

client, they refuse even to pay for like items like acoustic testing, for example.

Richard Alston:

Yeah.

Richard Alston:

And, and that's the thing.

Richard Alston:

If you think from a contractor's perspective, the amount of time you

Richard Alston:

put into a tender for someone to win that tender by doing the project badly.

Richard Alston:

Yes.

Richard Alston:

And this is what we really don't see in the, the clean room industry, like at all.

Richard Alston:

Yes.

Richard Alston:

Correct.

Richard Alston:

'Cause it's a highly regulated industry, so it's the equivalent of

Richard Alston:

having to meet the passive house mark.

Richard Alston:

So there's no cost cutting and value engineering.

Richard Alston:

Yes.

Richard Alston:

Yeah.

Richard Alston:

So if we have a project and the, the standard doesn't matter really, but

Richard Alston:

let's say it has to meet an ISO five.

Richard Alston:

So that's a global international standard.

Richard Alston:

We don't design a building and then build, build it and then

Richard Alston:

test it and go It's an IS oh nine.

Richard Alston:

It, we test it and it's an IS oh five.

Richard Alston:

Yeah.

Richard Alston:

And then, uh, manufacturing starts and then six months later it gets

Richard Alston:

validated again and it's an is oh five and three years later it's an ISO five.

Richard Alston:

'cause it meets Exactly.

Richard Alston:

And there's, there's no real difference in the clean room world.

Richard Alston:

Yes.

Richard Alston:

Yeah.

Richard Alston:

It's still the, the thing of you get a design order.

Richard Alston:

And there's a lot of work upfront,

Richard Alston:

Audience Member #1: correct?

Richard Alston:

Yeah.

Richard Alston:

Because if it's not done from the design Correct.

Richard Alston:

It could be a problem to just start now to like modify or amend

Richard Alston:

or do anything, update on it.

Richard Alston:

Because I think also with neighbors they have uh, something like that.

Richard Alston:

Like if you do the assessment, then you can do the assessment

Richard Alston:

again after six months.

Richard Alston:

Yeah.

Richard Alston:

So for higher grade, but it's not easy.

Richard Alston:

It's not really easy.

Richard Alston:

Even if you amend anything, try to change some of materials

Richard Alston:

or some energy performances.

Richard Alston:

Yeah.

Richard Alston:

And,

Richard Alston:

and things like your, your ISO 1, 9 6 5 oh.

Richard Alston:

Some of the, the principles of that is yes, it, it, it takes, it, it

Richard Alston:

costs time and money to do it and implement it, but it's focusing

Richard Alston:

about reducing the redraw work at the, not at the end of the project.

Richard Alston:

Before pro, you know, a project gets delayed because.

Richard Alston:

The, the architectural team.

Richard Alston:

The structural engineer team, they've built it, they've,

Richard Alston:

they've designed it, finished it.

Richard Alston:

Their work stages are done, and now we're having to start again.

Richard Alston:

Unpick the design that's already taken place.

Richard Alston:

Draw it all again, you've got all those architectural fees.

Richard Alston:

Structural fees again, and then all the delays to the program.

Richard Alston:

Yes.

Richard Alston:

Just because you're essentially designing it twice.

Richard Alston:

Yeah.

Richard Alston:

Correct.

Richard Alston:

Yeah, I agree.

Ann Vanner:

Thank you very much for that.

Ann Vanner:

Are there any other questions?

Ann Vanner:

Do you have a final word or anything that you want to add to that?

Richard Alston:

If, if I, if I could only say one word, it would be holistic.

Ann Vanner:

Oh, okay.

Ann Vanner:

Right.

Richard Alston:

I, I think we need a a more holistic, collaborative

Richard Alston:

approach to working where rather than working in different silos, we're

Richard Alston:

working hand in hand from the early stages with contractors, with clients.

Richard Alston:

And we're not moving the goalpost.

Richard Alston:

Mid, mid design.

Ann Vanner:

Yes.

Ann Vanner:

Brilliant.

Ann Vanner:

Wonderful.

Ann Vanner:

Thank you very much, Richard.

Ann Vanner:

This has been a bit of a pleasure, uh, for me as, uh, like I say, an

Ann Vanner:

ex academic to not only have taught this gentleman, but now have the

Ann Vanner:

privilege of sharing a stage with him.

Ann Vanner:

So thank you Richard, for saying yes and joining me on this.

Ann Vanner:

Thank you very much and uh, thank you very much for joining us this afternoon.

Ann Vanner:

Thank you.

Richard Alston:

Thank you.

Adam Endacott:

You've been listening to where it's at.

Adam Endacott:

A huge thanks to our guests and to you for listening.

Adam Endacott:

Want to learn more about architectural technology, how to progress your

Adam Endacott:

career, or how to work with a chartered architectural technologist?

Adam Endacott:

Head to architectural technology.com to find out more.

Adam Endacott:

The contents and views expressed by individuals in the where it's at

Adam Endacott:

podcasts are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the

Adam Endacott:

companies they work for or the host.

Adam Endacott:

This podcast is for informational purposes only and should

Adam Endacott:

not be considered as advice.

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The Architectural Technology podcast from CIAT. Celebrating the diversity of Architectural Technology, one episode at a time.

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Chartered Institute of Architectural Technologists CIAT

CIAT is a dynamic, forward-thinking, inclusive global membership qualifying body for AT. The only international body permitted to award the regulated and protected qualification, Chartered Architectural Technologist and protected designations MCIAT or FCIAT. This status recognises the distinct nature of AT discipline. Architectural Technology (AT), the technology of Architecture. A creative and innovative design discipline; integrates architecture, science, technology and engineering. AT forms the link between concept, innovation and realisation of a building or structure.
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