Reusing Empty Buildings: Working with Developers and Redefining HMO's with Peter Goldthorpe MCIAT | 021

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Jon Clayton MCIAT: I'm Jon Clayton, Chartered Architectural Technologist, and

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your host for this episode of "Where It's At." We're joined by Peter Goldthorpe.

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Peter is a Chartered Architectural Technologist who graduated with first

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class honours from the University of Northampton and now runs his own CIAT

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registered architectural practice.

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Peter works with property developers on schemes such as houses of

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multiple occupation, um, otherwise known as HMOs, new build sites and

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commercial to residential conversions.

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In this episode, he'll share his journey into Architectural Technology, talk

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about his current work with property investors and share his thoughts on

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what's changing in the industry right now.

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Peter, thanks for joining us today

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Peter Goldthorpe MCIAT: Thanks for having me.

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Jon Clayton MCIAT: Peter, why don't we sort of like rewind

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a bit, start at the beginning?

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Could you tell us how you first heard about Architectural Technology

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and, um, the idea of, of becoming an Architectural Technologist?

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Peter Goldthorpe MCIAT: It was about 2017, 2018.

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Um, I was running a development company, so we were buying and doing up properties

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and selling on or renting them.

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Fell out of love with it after I was ill for a while and I

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was looking for a new start.

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I was looking at what I enjoyed doing during the day job, and the bit I

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enjoyed most was looking at a building and seeing how I can reuse it and

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how we can make it come back to life.

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And then that's when I started looking into a career change, going

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to university for the first time.

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I had originally applied for four places for architecture and one

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for Architectural Technology.

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It was at Northampton and I lived in Northampton at the time.

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I was like, "It's ideal, no traveling to London."

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And, uh, I did all the interviews and after I'd left Northampton,

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after I'd done the other four interviews, it was a no-brainer.

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It's just the, the technical aspect and being able to physically bring it

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to life rather than just conceptualize it just completely sold me on it.

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Jon Clayton MCIAT: That sounds like that really appealed to you then?

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Peter Goldthorpe MCIAT: Oh, 100%.

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I think I was the only one on my course who didn't like doing the CGI aspect.

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So when we're doing projects and everyone had these really beautiful

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pictures all lifelike, and I'm just like, "I hate this bit." And I'd, I'd

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do it and I'm, I was just thinking mine's terrible compared to the rest.

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I'd focus so much on the other side and then it'd get to it and I'm

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thinking, "I'm bored senseless doing these pretty pictures, the CGIs." Oh

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yeah, it's de- definitely the, the, the hands-on side is a lot more me.

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Jon Clayton MCIAT: That completely resonates with me as well.

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Very similar when I was starting out and, um, yeah, I wasn't aware of Architectural

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Technology in the very, very early days and then I, I found out about it and I

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thought, "Yeah, this is for me." You know, much more the kind of technical detailing

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side of things and, and being able to kind of bring buildings to life, you know.

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Getting into the nitty-gritty detail was, was what I loved as well.

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Could you give us a bit of an overview of uh, the work that

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you're doing now as an Architectural Technologist in your practice?

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Peter Goldthorpe MCIAT: Yeah, definitely.

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So as soon as I started out by myself, I was basically taking

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anything on, uh, working with anyone.

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Kinda as you do, you kinda find your feet and trying to find your niche.

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And within about six months, I realised that I despised residential work.

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Um, getting a Pinterest board with about 60 kitchens in and saying,

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"I want something like that."

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And I was just sat there thinking, "This is not for me."

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Especially with my background and always working with developers.

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So I started going back to people and saying, you know, "I'm doing this now. Can

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I help you?" Um, and as soon as I started working with developers again, I just

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kinda, ch- you know, that's it for me.

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And my average week starts-- It's basically on the edge of your seat.

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Every day's a bit different.

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So people come to me with sites.

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They say, "I'm thinking of buying this.

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What can I do with it?" And the first thing I do is say, "Well, how much do

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you need to make from it, and what do you need to make it work?" Um, say if it's

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a HMO conversion, they'll say, "Right, I need 20 bedrooms to make this work."

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I'll go away.

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I'll check.

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I'll see if I can get 20.

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I'll see if not, what can be done to make 20.

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Or if not, what's the plan B and C?

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So I, I take away site straight from the initial feasibility.

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I wanna buy this all the way to putting it through planning and

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then taking it to completion.

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So one day might be drawing up a small extension to get

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an extra bedroom some day.

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Uh, the next day might be on site snagging 40 flats.

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And then it'll be coming back and designing a, a wall to

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divide a bedroom or or something.

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It, it varies.

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I don't think I've ever had two days in a row the same.

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It all depends on what planning officer calls up asking for some

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tweak or, you know, there, there was a bat spotted 400 meters away.

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We now want a bat survey.

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So it's, it's literally just whatever pops in gets, gets done next.

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It's, it's kinda what I love about it.

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It'd kill me if it was all the same.

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Jon Clayton MCIAT: Hmm.

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So a lot of variety then.

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And, um, it sounds like with that nature of the work that you need

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to be quite commercially minded as well working with developers

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Peter Goldthorpe MCIAT: Oh, 100%.

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That's what I love about it.

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To be fair, I'm very careful who I work with.

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I straightaway realise that the best work you can take on sometimes

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is the work you turn down.

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So now I work with the same few developers again and again, and I do work with new

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people, but it's, it's gotta be right.

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So I work with people that share the same interest as me.

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So not all HMOs are built the same.

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You've got some that, that are dreadful.

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I've been into some that I wouldn't take my dog in and that shouldn't be around.

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The ones I work on tend to be a lot higher end, so more co-living.

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So I'm just about to put a 63-bedder into planning, which is more co-living.

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It's got huge co-working areas, rooftop terrace bars, all sorts,

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you know, it's truly special.

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So to make that work, a lot more goes into it from the front end.

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And the people I work with realise that if you don't have the vision

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from the start, that's where it's gonna quickly drift away.

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So you've gotta realise what the budget is, and by doing that, a lot of the

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time you've gotta realise what the end value is by what you're doing.

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So as you're designing, if you're thinking one bedroom is gonna

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be X amount end value, you kinda know what you can put into it.

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Or if you say, "We can do an extension," and it gets an ex- eight bedrooms, that's

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great, but is the value gonna stack up?

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So as I'm doing it, I'm constantly thinking, "Would I do this?

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If I-- if my money was on it, would I actually invest in this?"

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So I only put it to the client if I know it's gonna stack up.

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So you've always gotta be thinking, "Yeah, it doesn't just look nice, but

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it's feasible." And more importantly, there's no point in designing it

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if it's not gonna get built out.

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So you've always gotta have that in the back of your mind and sometimes do a

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bit of give and take on what's pretty and what's actually feasible and gonna

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get built out to move a scheme forward.

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Jon Clayton MCIAT: We've mentioned already that you, you specialize in

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working with property investors and, you know, that can be a bit different to,

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to working with other types of clients.

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Is there anything else you'd like to share about that, that

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particular aspect of your work?

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Peter Goldthorpe MCIAT: For me, I suppose the important thing of

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working with developers is you're more likely to see it get built out.

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So when I started out, a lot of the residential projects I, I did and

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I got planning on, I did stage four pack, never actually been built.

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So they're lovely designs, but they're just sat on the paper.

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Um, build cost changing, family circumstances changing.

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Whereas when you're working with a developer, you've got a set strategy.

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It's, "Peter, I want this. Will it work? Yes or no?" Then

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it's the next stages, right?

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"I need this to make it work." So I kinda know what I'm doing throughout it.

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It's more, it's more this needs to work, make it work, rather than

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going with a nice concept that's then gonna kinda sit there for years.

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So I, I like the, the blunt approach of I'm in this to make money but make homes,

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and that's what I appreciate about it.

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So I like getting, getting into it, making it work, and more importantly

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for me, a lot of it is reuse.

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Um, so 99% of the stuff is basically converting buildings, and

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that's where I enjoy it the most.

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Jon Clayton MCIAT: And that's, I mean, that's a good thing in that

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particularly with the conversions that you might have, um, building stock.

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I mean, we have some of the oldest building stock in the

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world, don't we, in the UK?

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And if those buildings are not being used and, um, not being put to good use,

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and there is a possibility to bring them back to life, you know, um, maybe with

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a change of planning use and, you know, conversion to residential, and it's a

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good quality scheme, importantly, then that is something really great to be

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involved in, something to be proud of.

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Peter Goldthorpe MCIAT: 100%.

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I mean, I love tall ceilings, so the idea of the, the new build boxes, I hate it.

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There's just… I, I drive by and my, my wife tells me off all the time.

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We might be driving somewhere and she's talking to me and I, I should

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be listening and I am listening, but then out of nowhere I see this new

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build estate and I look at it and I'm thinking, "That looks dreadful."

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And I'm looking at the type of render they've done and I'm thinking, "In

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10 years that's gonna look shocking," or it's, it's a case there's so many

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things I pick up and I'm just thinking, "Why have they done that?" And then I

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go back to, "Oh, value engineering." Um, whereas with the older stock,

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you can't just value engineer a box.

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You've gotta make the building work with it.

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And I do a lot of listed buildings and, you know, the, the

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things you find is, is amazing.

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Some things not so amazing.

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I once had a box of

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false, fake false teeth fall out of a water tank on me, which was unique.

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Um, but some of the things you find, you pull up the floor and you

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find, you know, lovely old floors.

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Like I did an old Burton menswear shop that we turned into flats

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and, and shops downstairs.

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And once I actually took the floor up, they had all the original mosaic

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floor that had the, the old logo in.

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And you just, you never know what you're gonna find.

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And the, the new thing is straight away that's now something where the builder

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calls up, "What do I do with this?"

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So it's quick, get onto it.

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How do we make this a feature in the design without breaking the bank?

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And then it's just a new challenge again.

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But it keep, keeps me happy anyway.

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I think I'd be bored if I was just pigeonholed.

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Jon Clayton MCIAT: Yeah, like you say, working on, um, projects involving older

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buildings, you do sometimes, um, uncover some interesting things, for sure.

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Looking over the challenges around this, I mean, professionally, what

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would you say is your sort of biggest challenge or struggle with the work

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that you're doing at the moment?

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Peter Goldthorpe MCIAT: For me, it's every single planning application

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I put in gets the same comments.

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Nearly everything I do ends up on Facebook where the local paper shared

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it, and it's always people never look at what's bringing to the area.

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So it's always, it's for those people, and y-you get everyone coming out of

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the rock, and suddenly you're doing this beautiful scheme, you know, that's

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gonna benefit the area, bring a building back into use in a way that nothing else

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stacks up financially, and it's all, "We don't want any more HMOs," or, "It's,

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it's for illegals," or, you know, "Why are they putting that near the school?"

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And I'm just sat there thinking, I-- yeah, ideally you would like to keep

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a house a house or, you know, an old building, an old solicitor's office.

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But there's a reason people are moving out into new office stock.

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There, there's a reason some houses are empty and they've been empty 10 years.

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If you don't do something with them, they're gonna stay empty another 10.

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And when you factor in purchase price, build costs, some things don't stack.

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And with the economy at the minute, it's a case of people are staying at

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home a lot later, they're having kids later, they're getting married later.

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And for example, in Sunderland near me, you can get a really nice room

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for less than just the rent of a flat.

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So if you think the rent, the bills and everything adds up, if you're a single

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person, the cost is phenomenal these days.

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And there is a, there is a place for shared living if it's done right.

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And it's the misconceptions around it which is probably the

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most frustrating part of my job.

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Jon Clayton MCIAT: Do you think then that, HMOs just they, they

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have a, an unfair bad rap really?

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Like people hear that, that acronym and immediately they, they misjudge things.

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Peter Goldthorpe MCIAT: Oh, 100%.

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I get this every time I go to a planning committee, every

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time I bump into a neighbor.

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Um, I've even had calls from people who've got my name off the planning

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portal and call me up saying, "Are you still, are you still converting

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this?" Uh, uh, and I'm just like, " Oh, God, what have I got myself into?

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Why did I choose this?" Um, but it's, it's the biggest misconceptions.

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I mean, sometimes I get clients sending me links they've seen on Facebook about

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their project, and I just sit there and giggle and I'm thinking, you know, once

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I had over 400 objections on a scheme.

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Uh, got planning first time because the objections was, "Not in our

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neighborhood." And there was nothing actually of, of substance.

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So I always tell people, sack what people say.

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at the end of the day, it's, it's about does it tick all the boxes, and are you

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bringing something good to the area?

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Uh, luckily I don't work with the type where you don't wanna live next door to.

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I always focus on the type that I'd move into.

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But I, I understand the misconceptions.

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But I think we just need to make it clear that things like flat conversion

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to HMOs, they're all built differently, and they all have different standards.

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And there's a place in the market for the people who need it.

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You know, NHS workers, young professionals, people who don't

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wanna live with their mom till they're 35 and can afford a

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deposit, they want somewhere good.

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And in big cities like Newcastle and Sunderland, you want to

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re- retain your students.

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You know, they're, they're growing massively, and you want

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them people to stay in the area.

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And if they've been used to lovely student accommodation and they can't

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afford a flat, they wanna go to something like a nice co-living property where

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they can keep, keep that community feel at a cost they can afford.

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So I mean, if my wife gets sick of me pointing out til- like, ceiling tiles

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in a hospital saying that's, you know, that's been done terrible, that's

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somewhere I'd have to go and live.

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So hopefully, touch wood, she doesn't get sick of my ramblings about

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stuff I see out and about and, uh, I, I can stay here with the dogs.

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If not, it'll be co-living.

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Luckily, I know a few rooms.

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Jon Clayton MCIAT: Yeah, yeah, at least you, you've got an option if

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you ever needed it, um, God forbid

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Peter Goldthorpe MCIAT: pla- plan B. I think I've done HMO conversions in 24

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council areas now, so I'm probably only 50 miles from a room if I ever need it.

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Jon Clayton MCIAT: Um, Peter, have you over the years built

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up a bit of resilience then?

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Because, um, y- sometimes you can, can take it a bit personally, can't you, if

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you get, like, objections to a scheme that you've been involved in putting together,

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or you get sort of negative feedback.

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D- is that kind of like water off a duck's back, to coin a phrase now?

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Um, or do you still sometimes feel a little bit disappointed

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or, or upset if you get some negative feedback about a scheme?

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Peter Goldthorpe MCIAT: It really varies.

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Sometimes there's s- there's certain schemes which, you

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know, I get a bit attached to.

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So there's one at the minute where I'm doing it and it's gonna-- it's,

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it's an old solicitor's office.

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It's been empty since '24, and it already looks like it's been empty 20 years.

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And we're at the point where if it's something isn't done with

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it, it's gonna be demolished.

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And the people next door effectively got planning and lamp banked and

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demolished it in a conservation area.

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And I'm trying to get across that the only use that's feasible, we've looked at

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flats, we've looked at hotels, we looked at assisted living, and nothing stacks up

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with a huge build cost, but students does.

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And we're outside of what they call the urban core by about 100 meters.

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And in Sunderland, the urban core is a preference.

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It isn't actually said it has to be.

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And trying to get the point across that this is the only way to save the building.

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Sometimes it gets-- feels like you're hitting your head on a brick wall.

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So certain buildings I just look and I think, I, I just wait for someone

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like my wife to send me the link saying, "Oh, yeah, you're on Facebook

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again." And I just read through and I'm thinking, "You've not, you've not even

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looked at the application." And others like that, I'm sat there in committee

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meetings going, "Please be pragmatic.

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Let's just save a building and, and go forward." Otherwise, all,

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all this work's for nothing.

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So it depends on the building.

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I do fall in love with some and others it's just a job.

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So it, it just depends whether, you know, it's got the features that makes me think,

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"Wow, I wanna, I wanna bring this back." And if I do, I can get so personal, and

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as soon as I get out of that planning committee meeting, I'm like, "Grr."

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and I just sit in the car and I'm like, "I need five minutes." All the time

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to walk out going, "Expected that.

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Time for appeal." You know.

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You know, it shouldn't have to go to appeal, but sometimes it's

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the only way, um, when it comes to the kind of stuff I work in.

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You just know it's gonna end up down that route

Speaker: 00:16:28

Jon Clayton MCIAT: I think when you're doing any type of, um, work like this

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where you're designing or you're being creative or essentially you're putting

Speaker: 00:16:34

a lot of hours into something, a lot of effort into it, um, of, you know, it's on

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behalf of a client, you are getting paid for it, but it's understandable that you

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can get attached to, quite a proportion of the projects that you work on.

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I think yeah, it sounds like you've, you've found a, a nice balance

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there that you're able to kind of manage it without kind of feeling

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too disheartened about some of the knockbacks that you're getting.

Speaker: 00:16:56

I suppose that it just comes with experience really, I guess.

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Peter Goldthorpe MCIAT: Oh, definitely.

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I boxed when I was younger, so, uh, I learned to roll with the

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punches, so I've just kinda adapted that to a less violent lifestyle.

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It's a little bit less dangerous behind the keyboard, so

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Jon Clayton MCIAT: Yeah.

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Yeah, that's it.

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Although you do get a few keyboard warriors out there, which I'm sure you've,

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uh, crossed paths with, uh, on occasion.

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Peter Goldthorpe MCIAT: Oh, I love it.

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It, it cracks me up.

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I, I never resp- never, ever respond.

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Although I do respond to every objection.

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Every single objection comes in, I wait till the consultation's over,

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and then I respond to the ones that actually have merit, and I kinda try

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and help them understand the scheme.

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So I think if they understand it, then they can actually take it forward.

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Although I think 99% of the time, once they've had the rant online,

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they never look back at it.

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And so it's, uh, Yeah, the joys of so- the internet's great, but

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unfortunately it means you've gotta deal with that, where 30 years ago

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it'd have just been, you know, on a, on a lamp post and in the paper, and

Speaker: 00:17:55

you'd have had a little rant at home.

Speaker: 00:17:56

Now it's, you know, it's

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Jon Clayton MCIAT: Yeah, the times we live in, Peter.

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Talking of the times we live in and, and sort of looking to the future

Speaker: 00:18:05

really, I mean, what, what's changing, do you think, right now in the

Speaker: 00:18:08

industry that we, we should all maybe be paying a bit more attention to?

Speaker: 00:18:13

Peter Goldthorpe MCIAT: I'd say AI 100%.

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I mean, we've all watched "The Terminator," um, and

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the way it's going, you know.

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I alway-- I'm, I'm one of them weird ones who always says thank

Speaker: 00:18:22

you to Claude and ChatGPT just so they remember if it goes wrong.

Speaker: 00:18:26

But I'd say AI is massive because everything you do, the f- you know, the

Speaker: 00:18:30

first thing sometime clients do is put your emails into AI, or if I've said,

Speaker: 00:18:35

"We can't do this for such reason," they'll put it in and then AI will take

Speaker: 00:18:38

such a generic approach and they'll come back saying, "Oh, AI has said this."

Speaker: 00:18:42

And you have to explain, for example, there's 1,500 odd

Speaker: 00:18:44

pages in the approved documents.

Speaker: 00:18:46

It's my job to help you understand them, and unfortunately, it's my job to say

Speaker: 00:18:50

no and make sure that your properties are safe and that someone can live in

Speaker: 00:18:54

them and you're not gonna go to jail.

Speaker: 00:18:55

Well, prison.

Speaker: 00:18:56

Watch too much American TV.

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Go to prison.

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But I, I'd say AI.

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It's everyone cross-checks everything and unfortunately it's not at

Speaker: 00:19:06

the point yet where it's perfect.

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So having to… And sometimes you know when you're speaking to AI and you're

Speaker: 00:19:13

like, "Should my AI speak to your AI?" And you get emails with the dashes and

Speaker: 00:19:17

I'm just like, "I wanna speak to a human."

Speaker: 00:19:18

So for me, I think it's the use of people using AI to try and fact-check

Speaker: 00:19:22

everything you do, which I don't mind.

Speaker: 00:19:24

You're paying money, you wanna make sure it's done properly, but sometimes

Speaker: 00:19:28

just picking up a phone and saying, "I didn't quite understand that.

Speaker: 00:19:30

Can we have a chat?" is miles better than going to Claude or

Speaker: 00:19:33

somebody like that and coming back saying, " Claude says you're wrong."

Speaker: 00:19:37

And you've got to politely say, " Claude is right in an

Speaker: 00:19:40

extent, but you've cl- you've not told him anything about your site.

Speaker: 00:19:43

So it's right in some circumstances, but it's completely wrong in this." So

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I'm 100% pick up the phone every day of the week rather than bashing emails

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backwards and forwards 'cause things get lost in translation and you lose

Speaker: 00:19:55

that personal touch and, you know, you can fall out over something silly.

Speaker: 00:19:58

Whereas if you're on the phone, you can go, "Oh, I get why you think that, but

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this is how it works for your site."

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Jon Clayton MCIAT: Are you getting some clients or, or people that make inquiries

Speaker: 00:20:07

with you that are designing their schemes?

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Or, you know, are they, are they using tools like ChatGPT and Claude

Speaker: 00:20:15

to like design floor plans, for example, and, and are sort of sending

Speaker: 00:20:18

them in and saying, "I've already designed it, I just need you to put

Speaker: 00:20:22

the icing on the cake," so to speak?

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Peter Goldthorpe MCIAT: Yeah.

Speaker: 00:20:25

And I also had someone say, "I only want the PDFs, so why is it so expensive?"

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And I was just like, " If only it was PDFs." So yeah, we get some.

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They tend to be-- I've got one who does it, who I work with, and he's great.

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And when you say to him, for example, if you've got the block of flats and

Speaker: 00:20:42

how the escape route changes, if you've got two stairs and bits like that, and

Speaker: 00:20:46

you tell him that, he'll go away and he'll understand and he'll learn it.

Speaker: 00:20:49

And you send him the floor plans and he'll c- he's got a good design approach and

Speaker: 00:20:53

he says, "Oh, what about this?" And I'm thinking, "That's a really good idea, but

Speaker: 00:20:56

we'd have to adapt this, this and this." So it's not all bad, but sometimes if

Speaker: 00:20:59

people come across and they just want you to put your name on it, I'm straight away,

Speaker: 00:21:03

you know, u-unless I know that building inside out and its quirks, I'm not putting

Speaker: 00:21:07

my name on anything, unfortunately.

Speaker: 00:21:09

Jon Clayton MCIAT: Yeah, we have to be a bit skeptical, don't we, about

Speaker: 00:21:12

anything that's produced with AI?

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Yeah, I mean, it's c- it's a tool, I think, at the moment, like anything else.

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It's not quite ready to take over the world yet a- as of 2026.

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Um, it might have done if you're listening to this in a, you know, a few years' time.

Speaker: 00:21:26

Um, hopefully we're all, we're all still here working away o- on these projects.

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Peter Goldthorpe MCIAT: Claude sat there laughing going, "Well, at least he always

Speaker: 00:21:33

said please and thank you, so he's safe. He, he's, he's not one of our slaves now."

Speaker: 00:21:39

Jon Clayton MCIAT: Absolutely.

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Peter, what is one thing you wish more people understood

Speaker: 00:21:44

about Architectural Technology?

Speaker: 00:21:47

Peter Goldthorpe MCIAT: I think it'd be that not to pigeonhole us.

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A lot of people still kind of see like a draftsman or a technician.

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A- and that's one of the things I, I always try and get across.

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I, I always take pride in the fact of what I am, and I've worked hard

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to become chartered, and now it's my dream to go on and to be a fellow

Speaker: 00:22:04

in y- in years and really grow.

Speaker: 00:22:05

But a lot of people still see you as someone who's gonna come

Speaker: 00:22:08

in after, after an architect and just design the garage conversion.

Speaker: 00:22:11

And I always get across the point how we can bring value to the full

Speaker: 00:22:15

project, and it's not an us and them.

Speaker: 00:22:17

And so many times go on LinkedIn and you see arguing, it's us

Speaker: 00:22:20

and them, and it's, it's not.

Speaker: 00:22:21

It's like we've all got our place in a project.

Speaker: 00:22:23

But luckily, we're well-placed to take it from inception to completion.

Speaker: 00:22:27

So whenever I see people saying, " Oh, this architect's great," and then in six

Speaker: 00:22:32

months' time they come in and say, "I need someone to do the stage four pack.

Speaker: 00:22:34

Do you need a Technologist?" And I just sit there thinking that

Speaker: 00:22:38

Technologist, depending who they are, like if they'd have come to me,

Speaker: 00:22:41

it'd have been from start to finish.

Speaker: 00:22:43

I mean, I'll be honest, one of my favorite parts is the planning process.

Speaker: 00:22:46

I don't know why, but I love it.

Speaker: 00:22:48

Um, and it, it's the part that I probably enjoy just as much as detailing.

Speaker: 00:22:52

So it's a case of don't pigeonhole a Technologist,

Speaker: 00:22:55

see what they can do for you.

Speaker: 00:22:57

And I think that's why I was so glad to get out of a big practice.

Speaker: 00:23:00

A- as soon as I joined one, within six months, I was totally, "This

Speaker: 00:23:03

isn't for me," and went back to being self-employed again, and

Speaker: 00:23:06

I, I've never been happier since.

Speaker: 00:23:08

Jon Clayton MCIAT: Oh, that's nice.

Speaker: 00:23:09

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:23:10

Like you say, Peter, it's, um, you know, we are, are able to support people from

Speaker: 00:23:15

inception to completion and, um, I'm glad that you've raised that to just help

Speaker: 00:23:20

us kind of reinforce that, that we, we don't just do technical drawings, that

Speaker: 00:23:25

we do have all sorts of skills, like right from start to finish on projects.

Speaker: 00:23:29

I mean, architects are great as well, technologists are great

Speaker: 00:23:32

both professions could, could run the project from start to finish.

Speaker: 00:23:35

But I think depending on the nature of the project, there's just gonna be some

Speaker: 00:23:38

that are just way better suited to an Architectural Technologist and others that

Speaker: 00:23:44

might be better suited to an architect.

Speaker: 00:23:46

You know, got to be fair and balanced here, haven't we?

Speaker: 00:23:49

Peter Goldthorpe MCIAT: 100%, you do not wanna see me sketching.

Speaker: 00:23:51

Sometimes clients say, "I just need a quick sketch," and I'm there like, "Oh

Speaker: 00:23:54

God, I can't sketch to save my life.

Speaker: 00:23:56

I can't draw." I'm like, "If you want a stick man to scale, I can probably

Speaker: 00:24:00

just about to do that." So I'm like, the first thing I do is I get it in my

Speaker: 00:24:04

head, and then I go on CAD, and then I quickly get like a quick rough one out.

Speaker: 00:24:08

I, I never sketch, um, anymore just because people look at it and

Speaker: 00:24:12

thinking, "Is my house meant to be on an angle?" I, I've, I've just-- I've

Speaker: 00:24:17

got-- artistically, I'm terrible.

Speaker: 00:24:20

Um, but yeah, if I had to do renders and everything, I'd,

Speaker: 00:24:24

I'd be, I'd, I'd be stuffed.

Speaker: 00:24:25

So yeah, the technical aspect from day one, like with what I do, the first

Speaker: 00:24:30

thing I do on anything is I figure out roughly what the wall is and how

Speaker: 00:24:33

much of an upgrade I need to do, so I know what space I've got from day one.

Speaker: 00:24:37

So yeah, it's-- I'm, I'm much better suited to thinking like that in

Speaker: 00:24:40

concepts rather than, you know, what shade of green, kind of what color.

Speaker: 00:24:44

I mean, I admire it so much.

Speaker: 00:24:46

My dad was a great painter, um, so I admire anyone who can do that, but

Speaker: 00:24:49

it's definitely not my skill set.

Speaker: 00:24:52

Jon Clayton MCIAT: Well, we, we can't all be brilliant at everything, can we?

Speaker: 00:24:55

We've all got our strengths and weaknesses, haven't we?

Speaker: 00:24:57

Peter Goldthorpe MCIAT: Yeah, it'd be a bit boring if it was the same.

Speaker: 00:24:59

Jon Clayton MCIAT: Yeah, that's it.

Speaker: 00:25:01

We're all different.

Speaker: 00:25:02

Okay, so just thinking about technology I've got a question here we like

Speaker: 00:25:07

to ask the guests on the show.

Speaker: 00:25:08

What's your favorite piece of tech?

Speaker: 00:25:11

Peter Goldthorpe MCIAT: Ironically, I'm a real technophobe.

Speaker: 00:25:13

I'm t- I'm terrible at it.

Speaker: 00:25:15

Um, someone was showing me an app earlier, um, on a WhatsApp group with other

Speaker: 00:25:19

Technologists, and I'm just thinking, "Wow, That's great." And it's like, "I

Speaker: 00:25:22

made this on Claude," and there's me sat there going, I just use Claude to

Speaker: 00:25:25

try and make my emails look a little bit aggressive when I'm, when I'm in

Speaker: 00:25:28

a bit of a mood and I'm like, "No," 'cause I gotta get my point across.

Speaker: 00:25:31

So make me more polite sometimes.

Speaker: 00:25:33

Um, so I think it's amazing.

Speaker: 00:25:35

But at the minute there's a Technologist called Jake who's in a, a group that

Speaker: 00:25:39

I'm in, and he's made a, an app called StairSmith, and you can put in all

Speaker: 00:25:43

the things and it basically gives you the, the 3D and the 2D model of it.

Speaker: 00:25:48

At-- And that for me saves so much time.

Speaker: 00:25:51

So I'd say that's probably my favorite bit of tech, if that classes as

Speaker: 00:25:54

tech, just because, you know, I'm, I've not used anything like that.

Speaker: 00:25:57

It's kind of like in Revit obviously you've got that, but

Speaker: 00:26:00

in CAD it's a game changer.

Speaker: 00:26:01

So the amount of hours it saves me a month is, is incredible.

Speaker: 00:26:06

So I'd, I'd say, I'd, I'd say StairSmith by Jake White is, is amazing.

Speaker: 00:26:10

So when it's released properly and people get to use it, it's a game changer.

Speaker: 00:26:15

Jon Clayton MCIAT: Brilliant.

Speaker: 00:26:15

I will check that out.

Speaker: 00:26:16

StairSmith.

Speaker: 00:26:18

Okay.

Speaker: 00:26:18

Uh, that's a really good, a really good recommendation.

Speaker: 00:26:20

Thank you for that, Peter.

Speaker: 00:26:22

Um, what's the main thing that you'd like everyone to take away

Speaker: 00:26:26

from this conversation today?

Speaker: 00:26:29

Peter Goldthorpe MCIAT: For me, it's probably how us Technologists

Speaker: 00:26:34

have a place in the market.

Speaker: 00:26:36

Um, not to be downtrodden if people are quite demeaning to what we do and get

Speaker: 00:26:41

us mixed up or, or call us an architect.

Speaker: 00:26:45

You know, we can all tell people a million times what we are, but people are just

Speaker: 00:26:48

that set to understand what they do.

Speaker: 00:26:52

So I'd say not to take stuff like that personally.

Speaker: 00:26:55

And more importantly for me, what I'd want people to get out of it

Speaker: 00:26:58

is find your niche and stick to it.

Speaker: 00:27:01

You know, it's, it's great taking on a million and one jobs, but if you're not

Speaker: 00:27:04

happy, there's no point doing a job.

Speaker: 00:27:06

So find what you love, become the best at it.

Speaker: 00:27:09

And even if it's you love a certain type of extension or a new build

Speaker: 00:27:13

or only wanna work on conversions, as if you make yourself the best

Speaker: 00:27:17

at it, you know the work will come.

Speaker: 00:27:19

You've just gotta keep at it and do what you love and find your niche.

Speaker: 00:27:23

Jon Clayton MCIAT: Thanks for sharing that, Peter.

Speaker: 00:27:24

Was there anything else you wanted to add that we haven't already covered?

Speaker: 00:27:27

Peter Goldthorpe MCIAT: I don't think so.

Speaker: 00:27:28

I think I've babbled on enough to bore everyone now.

Speaker: 00:27:33

Uh, yeah, uh, I'm terrible at finishing conversations.

Speaker: 00:27:36

My wife always says when we're in meetings and she's like, she's like,

Speaker: 00:27:39

"You've got, you've gotta learn to bring a conversation to an end." But when

Speaker: 00:27:43

you're self-employed and you're working in, like by yourself a lot of the time,

Speaker: 00:27:46

when you, when you are allowed out in public, you do like, "Ooh, humans."

Speaker: 00:27:50

So it's… Work from home changes you.

Speaker: 00:27:53

Um, but no, I think I've, I really enjoyed today, thank you.

Speaker: 00:27:56

And it's, it's been interesting to hear myself actually say what I do

Speaker: 00:27:59

'cause it's hard to put it into words.

Speaker: 00:28:01

If you put me on the spot, I'd be like, Uh, what do I do?" But talking

Speaker: 00:28:05

it through kinda gets it out there and shows how great Technologists can

Speaker: 00:28:10

be if we all stick together and know our worth and, you know, work together

Speaker: 00:28:14

rather than undercutting each other.

Speaker: 00:28:16

Jon Clayton MCIAT: Peter, I've, I've really enjoyed this conversation

Speaker: 00:28:19

today, so, thanks so much for sharing your experiences and

Speaker: 00:28:23

a little bit about your story.

Speaker: 00:28:25

Um, it's been really interesting to hear about the work that you're

Speaker: 00:28:28

doing with property developers and a little bit about your sort of

Speaker: 00:28:30

journey into Architectural Technology.

Speaker: 00:28:32

So, thank you so much for joining us on this episode of "Where It's At."